How long did it take for you to get from idea to getting a product that was, you know, okay, enough to hang up a shingle to say, we’re good, we’re open for business?

It would have been maybe 18 months thereabouts. And it was, in all honesty, I think we sold something we didn’t actually have and then we worked our way to delivery. At the time they felt like we had an end-to-end platform and we might have had an 80% platform at best. But we worked with them and were very realistic and we didn’t charge much, if anything. So for them it was an amicable relationship where they were very open to working with it. You need to have that relationship as much as take the customer on the journey and make it as though they’re part of it and make them feel special.

Of course you got it. How many times did you come up with inventing a product on a sales call?

Yes, every time. Even sometimes I did it like two weeks ago.

Yeah, that’s good.

And then you just stay up all night building it.

Yeah, a lot of stuff.

Right. So it’s that “say yes” then. Cause you did that, didn’t you, when you had your first customer and you’re like, oh, we’re actually not ready to go. But it accelerated you to move toward getting the product into the market and ready.

Yeah, I mean, I think it was like you can never plan what your users are gonna want and love, and so you gotta always just build the next thing that they generally want. Your job is to look up and make sure there’s a direction you’re heading in, but your users will guide you on the next step to take.

Yeah, I think that fine line between, as a founder, selling what you don’t have—we touched on it before—but not getting so far ahead of your skis that you don’t deliver. Certainly not, you know, when they say “can you do that?” the answer’s kind of yes. It’s a very Aussie thing to not feel like you’re not telling the truth. Does it do this? You’re like, well, no, but give me three days and it will.

And I think that the ability to sort of do that and manage the relationship, manage the deliverable and go around really quickly, especially in the early days—all the while not, you know—it gets harder when you’ve got lots of customers pulling you in different directions, but definitely that ability to sell before you can actually deliver is hard.

And make them feel like they’re the only customer for as long as possible. Not that they’re gonna help you and then all of a sudden you’ve run off and you don’t have time for them. You’ve gotta make them feel as though they’re the one, that they’re on the journey, and like, we’ll look after you for a certain amount of time. They are backing you as founders, basically, and so you just don’t wanna let them down. So you have to have that connection. That first customer was the BMX Championship up in Cairns and they didn’t pay us a thing, but they were willing to give the platform a go and were very open to feedback.

There were a few niggles, a few bugs, but they really fast-tracked things in the early days, and then that led to us being able to do the Netball World Cup in Sydney in 2015.

Did people pay then?

They paid not much. But by doing that event, it opened up the world of major events for us. From that major event, we were then actually brought on Tough Mudder from meeting them at Phillip Island, the obstacle race. The head of volunteering for Tough Mudder came out from New York and that individual, Andy Newman, we have a lot of appreciation for him because he then launched Rosterfy with three weeks of intensive feedback for us into the US and the UK. So we went from about 500 volunteers to 120,000 volunteers.

And could you cope with that?

We found a way to cope, yeah, yeah, we found a way. Fast-tracked things. It’s amazing how efficient you can be when there’s a deadline.

That’s right.

Fortunately, Andy, who went from Tough Mudder and brought our platform with him, then got a job at the Super Bowl. So within 18 months of doing these tests, we went from Tough Mudder globally to the Super Bowl, which is probably the world’s biggest event, and we’ve done the last nine since then.

Cool.

But we could put a lot of that down to this one person, Andy, who we met.

You obviously made that customer really happy.

They loved us.

Yeah.

They were the one and only thing for months. We just put everything into it.

If you think about that first customer—and because your business is word of mouth, a lot of it’s driven by that—who did you make very happy who could then drive that flywheel in your business?

Yeah, she was a GP in Bendigo and so she was our first paying user, which was a super exciting moment. But I relate to your story so much in terms of there being these key people. You go, man, why did they tell so many people about our product? Like, why did they… yeah, wow. So much of our business, I don’t even know if they realise it, is attributable to this one person who just loved it.

Loved it. But I think they might have liked you as well.

That’s so much.

Exactly how you present yourself. Because Andy’s a best friend of ours now because we’ve gone on the journey together. So you’ve gotta be less transactional in the early days and more authentic and relationship focused. They really have to trust you first and then the product always comes second. You’ve gotta build the relationship for them to give you a go.

Then they wanna help you.

Right? Yeah. And then I would say it comes: the relationship, then the product, then the dollars. For us, the dollars were not even a part of the conversation in the early days. It was just knowing that person, getting them on side and then letting them know that, yeah, we’ve got your back, we’re not going to let you down.